tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post112991747382294335..comments2023-10-08T07:21:56.107-04:00Comments on All Kinds of Writing: Deductive ReasoningMellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130425817528602122005-10-27T11:10:00.000-04:002005-10-27T11:10:00.000-04:00Thanks once again :)Thanks once again :)Eric Muttahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402100305362845785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130396881035817762005-10-27T03:08:00.000-04:002005-10-27T03:08:00.000-04:00I most certainly will do it.Just give me some time...I most certainly will do it.<BR/>Just give me some time :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130380774927033132005-10-26T22:39:00.000-04:002005-10-26T22:39:00.000-04:00Melly:>Thanks deary (hope you don't mind :).Me? Mi...<B>Melly:>Thanks deary (hope you don't mind :).</B><BR/><BR/>Me? Mind? Not at all...deary [chuckle] :-)<BR/><BR/><B>Melly:>I can't tell you how impressed I am with the success of Teh Blog Father. What a great idea and I'm so glad you went with it. Is there more the Mama can do?</B><BR/><BR/>Well you've already done much by being a popular destination enabling the others to say "hey, I found a cool blog through Teh Blog Father". If you would do me the honour, you could encourage the other diverse folks you get coming here, to submit their own blogs. The following code will produce a nice picture and link for use in a post or in the sidebar:<BR/><BR/><a href="http://tehblogfather.blogspot.com/"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/31/55853819_6409752dc4.jpg" alt="Teh Blog Father"></a><BR/><BR/>Thanks in advance!Eric Muttahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402100305362845785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130369314810447112005-10-26T19:28:00.000-04:002005-10-26T19:28:00.000-04:00Thanks deary (hope you don't mind :).I can't tell ...Thanks deary (hope you don't mind :).<BR/><BR/>I can't tell you how impressed I am with the success of Teh Blog Father. What a great idea and I'm so glad you went with it. Is there more the Mama can do?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130354419674944942005-10-26T15:20:00.000-04:002005-10-26T15:20:00.000-04:00I think we touched on the subject of the responsib...I think we touched on the subject of the responsibilities of scientists. If not, I know no better place to start the discussion than on this blog :-)<BR/><BR/>PS: Teh Blog Father is deeply appreciative of all of Mama Corleone's tributes :-)Eric Muttahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402100305362845785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130224750916309132005-10-25T03:19:00.000-04:002005-10-25T03:19:00.000-04:00Eric, as always, words of wisdom indeed. Science ...Eric, as always, words of wisdom indeed. Science and scientists have responsibilities. We discussed it in the past a bit already, no?<BR/><BR/>teh blog father, it sure does :)<BR/>As I hope teh father appreciates Mama Corleone's past, present and future tributes to the family as he continues with his blessed protection of Mama Corleone's turf ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130206118062315252005-10-24T22:08:00.000-04:002005-10-24T22:08:00.000-04:00Melly, it's great to see friends of Teh Blog Fathe...Melly, it's great to see friends of Teh Blog Father around here. It pays to be Mama Corleone :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130205928950063352005-10-24T22:05:00.000-04:002005-10-24T22:05:00.000-04:00I see quite an interesting discussion has ensued h...I see quite an interesting discussion has ensued here. But I'll sit this one out and just enjoy the hilarious joke as I roll on the floor laughing :-)<BR/><BR/>PS: briefly on the subject of genes and intelligence. Scientists doing these studies should remember that while they <B>may</B> be as impartial as possible in their quest, there are less well-reasoned perpetuators of hate who will quite happily use the results to justify prejudice. <BR/><BR/>I believe the kneejerk reaction is not towards the scientists or the study, but towards the possible consequences of the study. It is in a sense similar to the atom bomb issue. Nuclear fusion is simple particle physics. Nagasaki and Hiroshima on the other hand...Eric Muttahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09402100305362845785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130173144143062072005-10-24T12:59:00.000-04:002005-10-24T12:59:00.000-04:00r. edmonson - you're most welcome. Always happy t...r. edmonson - you're most welcome. Always happy to oblige :)<BR/><BR/>Jennifer, I think even in daily life impartiality is a good thing. Say you want to decide on your political views, the analysis should be impartial (or as impartial as it can be), but once you've made up your mind, you'd be less impartial. See what I'm getting at??? I don't believe I explained myself well...<BR/><BR/>Thanks pheonix, what a compliment :)Mellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130165879680734902005-10-24T10:57:00.000-04:002005-10-24T10:57:00.000-04:00Absolute objectivity is always the ideal scientist...Absolute objectivity is always the ideal scientists aim for. Unfortunately, scientists are just human like everyone else.<BR/><BR/>I'm loving this blog...lots of intelligent people on here. I'm not as used to that, as my blog is about the goofy side of science.<BR/><BR/>I'll keep coming back here for sure.Jay Noelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11571082583740830927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130157567804894112005-10-24T08:39:00.000-04:002005-10-24T08:39:00.000-04:00Sometimes I'd agree striving for imartiallity is g...Sometimes I'd agree striving for imartiallity is good. As in science, your example. Or in our legal system (jusges, jurors...)<BR/><BR/>Other times I think it would make our existence less 'human'. It's out nature to lean one way or another. That's the root of our uniquiness--the ablity, the freedom to think one way or another, to support one side over another...<BR/><BR/>Guess it would depend on the situation on whether I think impartiallity is good or bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130145102007365912005-10-24T05:11:00.000-04:002005-10-24T05:11:00.000-04:00Found your post interesting not to mention the jok...Found your post interesting not to mention the joke :) I can see the meaning behind it. You send me down memory lane - some great memories with my parents and grandparents.<BR/><BR/>Thanks :)R. Edmondsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11459192328780306940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130141568183912102005-10-24T04:12:00.000-04:002005-10-24T04:12:00.000-04:00Oh, so true, so true :)Taorist, indeed this was pa...Oh, so true, so true :)<BR/>Taorist, indeed this was partly what I was thinking, like if and when we'd meet an alien - how and what and how many mistakes we would make. But I reveal too much of myself here...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130139578273373802005-10-24T03:39:00.000-04:002005-10-24T03:39:00.000-04:00What we know now could be a joke in the future.Ima...What we know now could be a joke in the future.<BR/><BR/>Imagine.<BR/><BR/>You were transported to the 3rd century AD. Rome. The long red capes. The shiny armors. The lions eating the Christians. <BR/><BR/>To them, the world was flat. <BR/>If you told them that. <BR/>They'd think you were crazier than a <BR/><BR/>cat.<BR/><BR/>To us, we thought of them as fools. How long until we get our turn.The Taoristhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03793689695203773009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130137100316103352005-10-24T02:58:00.000-04:002005-10-24T02:58:00.000-04:00Thanks rdl :)Redchurch, I believe you just nailed ...Thanks rdl :)<BR/><BR/>Redchurch, I believe you just nailed it. Next time I'll just write the one sentence ;)<BR/><BR/>Liz, exactly. Not only that, it is well known that scientist try to get certain outcomes (due to funding or whatever). They're very human.<BR/>And please, any direction is welcome :)<BR/><BR/>Karen - no prob. Select at will :)Mellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130125645885460182005-10-23T23:47:00.000-04:002005-10-23T23:47:00.000-04:00Now the interesting thing here is that the replies...Now the interesting thing here is that the replies to the post seemed strange to me but then I realised that I'm the strange one because I stopped reading the post once I got to the joke. (Sorry, Melly.)<BR/><BR/>Selective listening, I guess.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130109472486363722005-10-23T19:17:00.000-04:002005-10-23T19:17:00.000-04:00Melly, I really enjoyed you how tied the two ideas...Melly, I really enjoyed you how tied the two ideas together into one shole and find it interest how you as the outside observer in both notice that your father doesn't see that maybe the kid in the call doesn't want to hear a joke and the scientist doesn't see the spider can't walk. Both are ignoring data.<BR/><BR/>Here I go to yet another place . . .<BR/><BR/>In both cases, the "scientist" runs the risk of seeing what he needs to see rather than seeing all of the data. It's a very human failing. We all do it in every part of our life--making judgments on what we think is going on rather than finding out what really is happening."ME" Liz Strausshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10711283307459944821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130107258031608042005-10-23T18:40:00.000-04:002005-10-23T18:40:00.000-04:00Nice story, well done.Nice story, well done.rdlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04062856086277201874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130102589857844822005-10-23T17:23:00.000-04:002005-10-23T17:23:00.000-04:00No, I'm not suggesting that either, Pat. Not at a...No, I'm not suggesting that either, Pat. Not at all. I totally udnerstand what you say and even agree with most of it (if it came out that I suggested most scientists are like the one in the joke, it wasn't my intention).<BR/><BR/>About peer reviews, that can take years, especially in complicated experiments, but that's beside the point.<BR/><BR/>I'll tell you exactly what I was referring to in this post - a very popular "scientific" research claiming that negroids (their classification) have lower intelligence. It even became a popular book at some point, the name escapes me at the moment.<BR/>These scientists, as it turns out, chose to look at some aspects but ignore others.<BR/><BR/>It took years for other scientists to find the missing data and disprove that conclusion. It didn't matter though, the damage was done.<BR/><BR/>So when I talk about 'people science' there are so many variants that it's possible the data was mistakingly ignored, yet, no matter why data is ignored (intentionally or accidentally) it still led to wrong conclusions.<BR/><BR/>I love science and everything about it. Scientists, however are human, prone to mistakes, and as Jennifer pointed out, to their own preconceived ideas. I may trust science, and I even can't say I distrust scientists. Most of them I do trust. But there's always some skepticism left in me - the eternal skeptic :)Mellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130101647322441582005-10-23T17:07:00.000-04:002005-10-23T17:07:00.000-04:00You are so welcome singularity :) I'm so happy yo...You are so welcome singularity :) I'm so happy you dropped by.<BR/>I see you have strong feelings on the matter as well...<BR/><BR/>Scot, wow. You brought a whole new aspect to this post that I haven't even thought of. My own false reasoning as a child, later viewed in a different light. Beautiful!<BR/>Thank you so much for bringing it to my attention (and a general thanks :)Mellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130100485093446462005-10-23T16:48:00.000-04:002005-10-23T16:48:00.000-04:00>When it comes to 'people science,' I do think mos...>When it comes to 'people science,' I do think most scientist would deduce a spider can't hear. <BR/><BR/>Er...no. Actually, if anything, I think the joke, while very funny, is more an example of how the "average" person thinks science progresses. (I'm not lumping you or anyone in particular in "average," so no offense intended.)<BR/><BR/>What it ignores is the fact that scientists, modern scientists at least, don't operate in isolation, pulling poorly conceived experiments out of their woo-hoos. An aspect of experimental design is literature review; a comprehensive study of all related experimentation that went before and current theories. In this case, everything about spiders. And frankly all living things.<BR/><BR/>And of course, there is peer review, where a scientist's lovingly held conclusions are cheerfully eviscerated by his/her collegues.<BR/><BR/>This sort of micro-focus on one weak causal relationship is the sort of thing that the un-Intelligent Design crowd use. They find a situation where the theory of evolution hasn't proved something, and immediately claim that it dismantles the entire theory, stupidly ignoring the vast body of evidence that does "work." Likewise the twits who grasp one (in a sea of contradictory studies) study that claims the Earth is cooler and dismiss global warming as an environmentalist plot to make us all get rid of our SUVs.<BR/><BR/>I'm not suggesting science has all the answers. Just that it isn't a simplistic observation of cause and effect.Pat Kirbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13412454476874666367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130098652931069632005-10-23T16:17:00.000-04:002005-10-23T16:17:00.000-04:00I'm familiar with that kneejerk reaction only too ...I'm familiar with that kneejerk reaction only too well. I tend to have it myself ;)<BR/><BR/>My post wasn't a kneejerk reaction though to 'racist science,' but I definitely read some things I didn't like.<BR/><BR/>When it comes to 'people science,' I do think most scientist would deduce a spider can't hear. I think it is very hard to explain things properly and to take <B>all</B> things into account in 'people science.' Hence, I think the conclusions can be wrong.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and most of these scientist don't just present data, they also present their conclusions. At least in stuff I've read.<BR/><BR/>Wow, that was a good one :)Mellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130077233123735672005-10-23T10:20:00.000-04:002005-10-23T10:20:00.000-04:00ObilonKenobi, yes. Two levels indeed. One led me...ObilonKenobi, yes. Two levels indeed. One led me another and back again. The way life always does.<BR/>Relationships are a dynamic thing. If I still felt the same way about my dad, I probably wouldn't have been able to write about it, but understading and laughing about it is a sign I moved on to better things.<BR/><BR/>About the second part - the problem with questioning scientists is that we don't really have the tools most times. So when someone claims a certain group of people is less intelligent and proves it, I, as a non-scientist, do not have the tools to question his method. Luckily, other scientists do and they question it, run the same study and reach a different conclusion. So now, who should I believe???<BR/><BR/>Jennifer - absolutely. I think impartiallity is somethign that is very difficult to achieve. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and strive for it ;) I hope we can come close. DOn't you?Mellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130076823747615042005-10-23T10:13:00.000-04:002005-10-23T10:13:00.000-04:00Karen, LOL, so you should. I believe it is the pa...Karen, LOL, so you should. I believe it is the parents job description - embarrass your kids as often as you can and be totally oblivious to it :)<BR/><BR/>Lance, you understood me well. My relationship with my father today is very different. I actually like his jokes, even when I hear them for teh 100th time.Mellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17461471128865537538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12725467.post-1130076094858527012005-10-23T10:01:00.000-04:002005-10-23T10:01:00.000-04:00Isn't it hard to be totally impartial. Everyone's...Isn't it hard to be totally impartial. Everyone's thinking is always going to lean one way or another just because of how they were brought up, of how they learned something, of a teachers influence...of a million different experiences they've had.<BR/><BR/>And all these events affect how we will see or interpret something so even the most impartial person really isn't totally impartial (in my opinion).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com